Women, elders, rebuking, and the internet.

written by Julie R. Neidlinger      5 comments      link this post     


I can't think of what else blogs and forums are but public places of conversation. So, when I read instructions for women, on religious-themed blogs and forums, to be quiet or go get their husband to speak for them since the Bible forbids this that and the other thing in dealing with men, I obviously get irate.

You don't come to a public forum with male and female writers and commenters and expect to have half of them not say anything.

Male and female commenters say things that are out of line and wrong, but the strange thing that happens sometimes is that the female commenters are undercut as I described above, while the male commenters are directly confronted and admonished. If I said something wrong, I want to be treated directly, and not shuffled in some manner based on my sex.

Here's a blog post where, in the comments section, you can see this happening again. My first comment on this thread angle was in response to a female commenter indicating that she thought a male commenter was a hypocrite. The male commenter responded that she had disobeyed the Word because she publicly rebuked an ordained elder, and then suggested at the end that she go get her husband.

Regarding the rebuking of elders in public by women or non-male elders… is this blog a church? Is it my church? Are you my elder?

To be blunt, that's just a fancy way of shutting women up when you don't want to deal with them. Don't get me started again on this.

That's the same kind of cop-out Ken uses when he shrugs off any negative comments by saying he is called of God and we aren't and therefore we need to be quiet and let the called speak. I would say that if you don't want to be rebuked by women, you should:

a) Not take part in a discussion on a public blog.
b) Not take part in a discussion on a public blog where women comment.
c) Not take part in a discussion on a public blog where women comment who are known to have a couple of IQ points to rub together.

Really, all this call to "go get your husband" is out of line here, Rick. This isn't a church. I don't have a husband. I think it's a weak cop-out and it gets annoying to see half of the general population use God (I should say, Paul) as a reason to get the other half to shut their yap.

I don't think anyone should be calling anyone else a hypocrite. I do get tired of all the name-calling.

My comment was responded to fairly evenly but I felt that, again, there was confusion on the difference between a blog and a church and the responsibility (or even the expected latitude) on has to assume when carrying on discussion in public places with both sexes.

I responded again (quotes of the male commenter in gray):

You again misrepresent my position.

"Again." OK... so I've apparently got a jones for misrepresentation.

Please do not misrepresent my position. I have no problem with being confronted and debated on Biblical issues by anyone.

OK. But then...

I believe an elder should not be PUBLICLY REBUKED by a woman or even any believer. An issue that is so serious it necessitates a rebuke to an elder must be brought first privately to the elder body, and if substantiated he should be rebuke publicly by the ELDER BODY.

What is the difference between rebuke and confrontational debate, then? Who decides when they've been rebuked or just had toes stepped on?

I agree that there's way to much "you're a hypocrite!" "no, you are!" "no, you are!" going on, and it's one thing to say to anyone, man or woman, to not do that. But to tell the woman to go get her husband...

What is the message there?

You are a respecter of persons and have disobeyed the Word by openly rebuking me an ordaine elder. Next time bring your hsuband, until then just laugh at what is OBVIOUSLY meant as humor to those without an axe to grind.

I don't have an axe to grind with you. However, I saw no obvious humor. I only saw a pattern of telling women commenters to go get their husbands, as you did to Ginger in this post. Why do you do that to the women commenters on this blog?

Yes, you are ordained. Yes, you are older. Yes, you are a Christian brother. You deserve respect for all of these reasons and more. But again, this is a blog and not a church. Rebuke/debate -- whatever you call it -- happens here. Men and women are here. It is simply not feasible to tell women to go get their husbands when they say something to you that if a male commenter had said to you, you would directly address.

I'm not even arguing the place of women in church. I don't have the desire or stamina or thick skin to go through that again. I should think, after reading the "women" category on my main blog, that you'd get an idea.

I am talking, instead, of women in the public sphere of religious discussion having rules and constrictions thrown at them as if a blog was a church of some sort. The same blog even had a post on this, in which there is obvious discord for men thinking that a woman with a mere blog runs the risk, depending upon her topics of discussion, of damning herself in some way because they keep confusing a blog with a church.

My suggestion to males with certain religious feelings regarding women and when they can and can't speak or what they can and can't say is to, without any malice, suggest they avoid places of discussion on the internet.

Labels: discussion, religion, women

Copyright (c) Julie R. Neidlinger  9/07/2007 09:53:00 AM   (5) comments   Links to this post    

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